#PTonICE Daily Show – Thursday, August 3rd, 2023 – Do more, better: the case for high dosage

In today’s episode of the PT on ICE Daily Show, ICE CEO Jeff Moore emphasizes the importance of considering individual circumstances and not allowing blanket statements to hinder progress. While the general principle of “do less better” is often advocated for efficiency and clarity, Jeff acknowledges that there are exceptions to this approach.

Jeff encourages listeners to think about situations where a person may come into the clinic with psychological barriers or feeling overwhelmed. In these cases, Jeffg suggests that overwhelming the individual with multiple interventions or exercises may actually be beneficial. By providing a variety of options and allowing the person to choose one or two to focus on, it can help shift their psychology and get them on board with the treatment plan.

Jeff also mentions that this concept applies not only to exercise but also to other aspects of healthcare, such as sleep hygiene and diet. Instead of overwhelming individuals with a long list of changes to make, it is more effective to start with one or two manageable changes. This approach makes it more approachable and minimizes barriers to compliance.

Overall, the episode highlights the importance of considering individual circumstances and being flexible in treatment approaches. While the general principle of “do less better” is valuable, it is essential to recognize that there are times when overwhelming individuals with options or interventions can be beneficial in getting them on board and moving in the right direction.

Take a listen to the podcast episode or read the full transcription below.

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Alright team, what’s up? Welcome to the PT on Ice Daily show. I am Dr. Jeff Moore, currently serving as the CEO of Ice and thrilled to be here on a Leadership Thursday. Always wonderful to have you on Instagram, on YouTube if you’re live streaming or over on the podcast. Thank you so much for carving out a few minutes for us today. It is Thursday, it means it’s Gut Check Thursday, and it is a doozy. So many of you are at the CrossFit Games, you’re probably going to be throwing this workout down together. I know it comes from our friends at Mayhem, they’re probably going to be doing it as well. But the workout is, and it would be simple if it was just the first part, it is a hundred for time at a relatively manageable weight. Okay, so we’ve got 75-55 on the bar. Many of you probably remember the 100 clean and jerks for time that we’ve done I think twice now. The problem is you also have an EMOM of 15 air squats, and that’s going to make it a different kind of stimulus, and that includes starting at zero. The first thing you’re going to do when the timer goes off or Gut Check Thursday is you’re going to bang out 15 air squats, then you’re going to grab your bar and start rocking your power snatches. You’re going to keep doing this every minute, 15 air squats, as many power snatches as you can until you’ve accumulated 100 power snatches at 75 or 55 pounds. Can’t wait to see some of the post commit, I already saw one this morning, somebody said their low back was on fire, I’m sure that’s the case, I can’t wait to try it. Probably going to knock that out here on Saturday afternoon. Alright, as far as upcoming courses go, I want to highlight, speaking of power snatches, I want to highlight our Fitness Athlete Live courses because the ones that are coming up, I see those courses swelling. So Mitch is going to be in Bismarck, and that is going to be on 9-9. So that’s in four weeks, a little over four weeks. That class is already pushing 30 people, we’re about at capacity, so if you want to jump into Bismarck, you’re going to need to probably do that in the next week or so. Similar story for Newark, California, Zach is going to be down there on October 7th, and again, I’m seeing that course edge towards capacity, so if you want to jump in Fitness Athlete Live, you’re going to want to make that move pretty quick. We do have Linwood, Virginia following that, so it goes Bismarck, 9-9, it goes Newark, 9-30, it goes Linwood, Virginia, 10-7. If you want to jump into one of those courses, try to make it happen in the next week or so to make sure you get your seat. Alright, it is Leadership Thursday, but this one’s a little bit more clinical, but I do think that it really revolves around leading people, so I think it’s appropriate for this day of the week.


I want to talk about doing it more, better sometimes. Now the obvious caveat we have to open with is the fact that we have preached do less better on this show, in this company, for the better part of a decade almost constantly, and there are good reasons for that because the majority of times, doing less better is what makes it work, is what makes for an efficient avail, is what allows you to know which intervention you did actually have the effect. If you’re doing a million things with a small dosage, you have no clue what moved the needle. More importantly, your patient doesn’t know, so they don’t know what to focus on, they don’t know what to attach their outcome to. If you’re doing a ton of things, it gets messy, it lacks clarity, and it’s very hard to get treatment effect. Additionally, it’s very hard to give sufficient dose of anything if you’re doing everything. Do less better is a hallmark statement and should generally be observed. The challenge I want to make for all of us, including myself this morning, is it always the case though? Is there sometimes, and there should be exceptions to all of this stuff, are there sometimes where overwhelm is exactly what the doctor ordered? Are there times we have to go big? Right now, what’s very in vogue, and I generally like this, is things like don’t do more than three exercises. There’s actually a bit of research showing from a compliance perspective that statement makes sense. If you give somebody a whole laundry list of things to do, they’re not going to do any of them. But it’s not just exercise. We’re hearing these comments around things like sleep hygiene. Don’t try to make a bunch of changes, just make one. We hear it around diet. Don’t change a ton of things, just start with one or two. I myself preach this all the time. Make it approachable, try to minimize barriers, just choose one or two. But I want us to pause for a second to make sure we don’t just make this our default And think about when the opposite might make more sense.


I want us to think about that reluctant encounter. What I mean is that person who comes into your clinic and you can tell they are really suspect, they’re suspicious about whether or not this is really going to work. And you know this person. This is not the person who gets rehab consistently. It’s not the person who’s already bought into this being the primary treatment choice. It’s the person who’s like, I don’t know about this. My doctor said come so I’m here, but I just don’t know about this. Think about that person who’s really reluctant. For some people, for that person in particular, this might be the only time that they’re going to be in this stage where they’re even considering this route. It’s not the route they’ve used in the past. They’re really unsure about it, but they’ve heard some good things. They were told to be here. It’s a small window of opportunity. You might only get one at bat with this patient. You can all picture this person. You’ve got him on your caseload right now. You can just feel what their energy is. I don’t know about this. I don’t think this is going to get the job done. You might only get one shot at this person. And I want to make a two-part argument about how we manage this individual, especially at that first encounter, which might be the only encounter if things go wrong. The absolute worst outcome with that person is nothing. The absolute worst outcome is no change because it’s kind of what they think is going to happen. This is a waste of my time. This isn’t going to work. Getting no change is the worst possible outcome. The second argument I’ll make is that while I totally agree, especially this person, won’t do a bunch of things for a long period of time, they will not do the long litany of exercises, they won’t make a million changes, they won’t do those things for a long time, but I think they will do it for four or five days. I think they will make a really aggressive change because they’re wondering if their time is being well spent. They almost want to prove it wrong sometimes. Like, see, it didn’t work. While I don’t think a long list of massive lifestyle or exercise changes is sustainable for that person long term, I do think they’ll do it for a few days, especially if we tell them, hey, listen, this is not sustainable for a long period of time. What we’re trying to see is if we can move this needle. So let’s figure it out once and for all and right out of the gates. What if we go this route where we tell them, you don’t have to do this for a long time, we’re going to put all the guns on early, we’re going to see if anything changes. If nothing changes with a high dose, we can both agree that this isn’t going to work. But if something does change, what we can then do is begin to look at what you’ve got on the board and we can tease that down to the things that were the most manageable for you to alter. And that’s the stuff that we can ride out into the sunset. Right. Then we can pare down the program. What I’m saying is, should we be asking a ton upfront, prove that change will happen with the highest dose that they can tolerate and then refine and make it sustainable? Should we be telling them, I’m going to ask you never to continue this, but I want to know if we can make a difference and then we’ll choose the things that were the easiest for you to stay with. And that’s going to be our long term program. It’s not for everyone. It’s not even for most.


But on those people who are particularly doubtful that PT will work, I think we need to swing for the fences. And I’m bringing this episode to you because I’ve had numerous conversations recently with people who did the less better thing, right? Small changes that were easy for the patient that didn’t do anything. Where the patient was like, I don’t really think I felt a difference. That’s fine. In someone who’s committed to rehab being the solution, that is not fine. In someone who’s testing you out to see whether or not they’re wasting their time. On that second person, we need to identify them and say, look, they’re only going to give us one chance. We don’t need to make it sustainable. We need to make it noticeable. I want to say that one more time. In the highly speculative person, we don’t need to make it sustainable. We can worry about sustainability later. We need to make it noticeable. We need to tell them what I’m about to ask is you’re going to eliminate a bunch of stuff from your diet. You’re going to change a bunch of things about your sleep environment. You are not going to have to maintain these long term. This is going to tell both of us if you’re in the right spot. Once that person comes back and you’ve all had the person who’s made really drastic diet changes, think about fasting or total sugar elimination. What do they come back and say? They say really drastic things like, my gosh, I feel less swollen all over my body. I had carpal tunnel as well and that feels better. I used to have headaches and now I don’t. They tend to see things happen because they made such a drastic change to the ecosystem. In the unsure speculative patient, that is exactly what the doctor ordered because the number one goal with them is psychological. We’ve got to get them to believe, oh my gosh, this stuff can actually have an effect on my condition. Now the moment they realize that these are the things that I should be tweaking to make a change, now we alter that program to make it sustainable and do less better.


But I am making a call to action on this episode that for the reluctant individual, for the person with the psychological barrier, doing more in the very short term to show them that what won’t happen is nothing is the most important thing to get that initial piece of traction that allows you to then refine, pare down and make sustainable a program they now believe in. Give it some thought. Is there a place to go with overdoses, overwhelm, to shift psychology, to get that goal in mind and get that patient on board? I hope it makes sense. In general, I’m always going to believe in do less better but there are always exceptions and let’s make sure that we’re not letting a blanket statement prevent those people from moving in the right direction. Cheers everybody, PT on ICE.com, you know where the goods live. All of you at the CrossFit Games, good luck. Kelly Benfey, especially good luck. I hope the 64 Army crushes it this weekend. I will certainly be watching from right here. Cheers everybody, take care.

12:20 OUTRO
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